Transcript - Tricia Carey
Season 3, Episode 12
Conversation with Tricia Carey
Joshua Williams: [00:00:00] Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail, as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future.
Visit RetailRevolutionPodcast.com for more information, including full transcripts. And follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at @RetailRevolutionPodcast. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy. Both are Assistant Professors in the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design.
Christopher Lacy: [00:00:46] Today's guest is a well-known advocate for innovation and sustainability in the textile and apparel industry. Twenty years ago, Tricia Carey joined Courtaulds Fibers New York to develop the marketing plan for a brand-new fiber called Tencel. When Lenzing Fibers acquiredTencel, Inc. in 2004, Tricia became the USA merchandising manager for womenswear, menswear and intimates. Today, Tricia directs the global denim segment, as well as the America's business development teams, with a special interest in advancing more sustainable apparel development from fiber to consumer use. Tricia Carey is a revolutionary and a force for change.
Her experience in fabric sales, global sourcing and apparel business development, make her an invaluable partner for brands and retailers who want to reevaluate their supply chains and optimize the application and benefits of Lenzing's botanic fibers. Today, Tricia and I discuss the evolution of the denim industry and how new developments in fiber production can bring ethical and sustainable fashion to all consumers.
I'm Christopher Lacy, and this is Retail Revolution podcast.
Hi, Tricia, welcome to the show.
Tricia Carey: [00:02:13] Thank you, Christopher. It's really a pleasure to be here. I'm a regular listener and it's wonderful to be a part of this conversation with you.
Christopher Lacy: [00:02:21] Yay. That makes me so happy to hear because you are a very busy woman, so thank you for making time to listen.
Tricia Carey: [00:02:29] I love podcasts and yeah, listen in between, it's great to have in the background too, now that we're commuting less, but still have this chance to connect with people and hear what's happening in the world.
Christopher Lacy: [00:02:41] Well, I want to give an opportunity to tell people about you because there's a lot that's happened in your world. And you've been in it for 20 years. And I think your career trajectory would be interesting for us to hear about because, for a lot of people, sustainability and ethical fashion efforts and, ethical fiber sourcing, and that technology is, is new. They think it's new to the fashion industry, but this is not a new conversation at all.
Tricia Carey: [00:03:05] Well, thank you. Yeah, backing up a long time ago. And growing up, I grew up in upstate New York. I was the youngest of three girls. And I would get these terrible, terrible hand-me-downs from my sisters. And my mom would say, there's nothing wrong with this. You have to wear it. You know, there would be shoes that were too big that you put tissues inside. And my mother, I think always had that looking at things that nothing should go to waste. And I think from that upbringing, is where I am today. Actually, with these hand-me-downs is how I got started with taking some sewing lessons while I was in junior high school and started to really appreciate textiles and the art and design that goes into textiles. Having the right fabrics, the influence that that can have on wearing a garment that you feel great in.
And so I did attend FIT in 1993. I moved to New York City and had some wonderful internship experiences with companies like Liz Claiborne, Henri Bendel. And I also started working in the textile industry during an internship. And then I started working at that company, which is a domestic heat transfer textile company. And started to learn a lot more about the textile industry, how the supply chain works. After a couple of years at the heat transfer textile company, then I moved to the buying side with Susan Bristol, a women's coordinated sportswear company. With that company, I actually was able to travel to Asia and see firsthand what was happening in the mills. And the experiences that I was able to have by traveling were really eye opening to me early on in my career.
When I was in textile buying for Susan Bristol, I would also attend many of the trend presentations at fiber companies. And I happened to go to several presentations at this company called Courtaulds had this amazing new fiber called Tencel. And I was really intrigued by how the positioning of this fiber, from the aesthetics of it to the production process, was so important. And that was in the late 1990s.
Then they had an opening and I started working with Tencel. At that time there was not the interest at all on how the fiber was being made, coming from nature. And I try to stay away from the word sustainable because it's overused so much now. And I like how you call it ethical, because it does bring in so much more and how we can be responsible in textile production.
So, in working with Tencel fibers in the early days, as it was really coming into the market, and seeing now it's actually 22 years later that I've been working with this fiber, how much it has changed. The fiber itself is still the same. We've had a lot of innovations over the years, but the interest from retailers and brands, from our mill partners and what they're looking at when it comes to circularity, carbon reduction, transparency, traceability; it's so much more than just producing and selling a fiber. So, that's where I'm at today with my role in global business development, where I focus on the denim market and then overseeing the America's team and working with American and South American brands and retailers.
Christopher Lacy: [00:06:36] There's so much I want to ask you after what you just said, because I'm trying to decide which direction I want to go in. The first thing I think I want to talk about though, is the fiber Tencel. Because we probably have quite a few listeners that actually don't know what that is. And they're like, do I use this even? Is this something that I'm aware of? Or do I have to go out and find it? Can you kind of take us through what Tencel is?
Tricia Carey: [00:07:01] Sure. Yes. Tencel is the brand name and lyocell or modal is the generic name. And so our fibers, we actually make three generations of fiber. So, I'll back it up a little bit. We make viscose, we make modal and we make lyocell. Our viscose we brandas Eco Vero viscose. And this is a traceable viscose. It is derived from trees, from wood pulp. We manufacture our viscose in China, Indonesia, and in Austria. Then our modal, which we call our second generation that we only produce at our headquarters in Austria. That primarily comes from Beech trees. And it's the only modal that is produced at an integrated site where we are tree to fiber. And then our lyocel, which we brand as Tencel, that also comes from trees, from wood pulp. And in producing lyocell, it's actually a closed loop manufacturing process where we reuse the solvent at a rate of over 99.5%. So, there's circularity built right into the production process. And that fiber we produce right here in the United States, in Mobile, Alabama, as well as in the UK and in Austria. And we have some very aggressive expansion plans coming up in this year. And next year as well.
So, Tencel comes from trees. So, we convert trees. These trees are from managed tree farms. So, we have certified and controlled wood sources that we're buying from. A lot of times people question "well, as trees really, are they a good source to use or not?" If it's done responsibly, it is a good raw material to use because it's renewable.
So, when you look at different options, at least with trees, it is something that can be renewed when harvested responsibly. That's a little bit about Tencel. There's a lot of information that we have online. You can find Tencel with retailers and brands ranging from Levi's to H&M to Mara Hoffman, Boyish Denim to Lululemon. So, we're really across the board.
Christopher Lacy: [00:09:20] And when you think about this talk, that's constantly going on around sustainability and you, and you mentioned just now, H&M uses Tencel and it's being used across so many different industries. I want to hone in on that denim aspect because that's really the world you're in right now.
And denim, for many years, probably of any pieces of apparel; we talk about a lot, right? When it comes to, how often do you wash it; the process it goes through to make it and then the sustainability talk around cotton. Do you think that denim then we'll ever truly be viewed as a fully sustainable resource from beginning to end, because there's so many variables with it?
Tricia Carey: [00:10:04] Yeah. Christopher you're exactly right. There's so many components to producing a denim garment. And yet we have denim in our closets that's been there for years and right there, that's probably the best way of describing something that's quote, sustainable. But I think it is how you describe sustainability and having the least amount of impact on the environment. With denim, this is a huge industry. It's over $80 billion industry is defined by Euro Monitor. You even see higher numbers in other reports, and it impacts so many people globally from farmers down to garment washers, that we have in the whole production process of manufacturing denim. And I think will we ever really have a sustainable jean, comes down to that definition of sustainability, but I think where we're at now in the industry is for many years, there's been development in technology of reducing the water footprint. There was a lot of innovation around laundry finishing. And then there was really innovation in developing multi fiber blends, which then I'm using cotton as well as Tencel lyocell, mechanically recycling cotton; there was a lot happening in that area. And now we continue to see ways that we can trace denim to have the accountability around measuring more of understanding the whole footprint of the garment.
But, you know, if you look at what's happened over the past year, I think there's been a pause to kind of reflect and understand, you know, how do we value our garments more? How are we redefining value as we come out of this critical time of the pandemic? And so denim is one of those articles of clothing that can last for so long. And to this, I think is really the most reason why we can say that you can have a sustainable garment, because if it can last longer than it has a lower impact on the environment. And of course, a lot of the impact on the environment comes out of washing it. And there's a lot of different schools of thoughts, how you wash your denim garments as a consumer and what the impact is on the environment from that standpoint, from water detergents that are being used, microfibers. And for, for denim, I think there's been a lot done in the industry, as garment makers have looked at how they can lower their footprint, as well as what brands are doing in different initiatives. It's really for the consumer to understand this difference, when they are voting with their dollar, as far as who they're buying a garment from.
Christopher Lacy: [00:13:01] You mentioned the longevity of denim. And it made me think of my own closet. When people ask me, if you were to ever ask me what I spend money on, it's skincare and denim. And I have denim that I'm that crazy person that will take it to someone they're like patch up a hole. Cause I'm like, I can't let go of this pair of denim.
But there's also the other side with consumers, yeah, we love our denim. And then there's that thing where we are trying to decide what's the right way to take care of it. I mean, there was a whole year I spent rolling on my denim and sticking it in a freezer and I mean, I feel like I've done. And then there was that thing where it's like, I'm only supposed to wash my denim like once a year. And then I, when you live in New York, that's not an option after riding the A train. So what, you know, if you're a consumer and you're trying to be conscious, what are you supposed to do? Like, is there a basic kind of principle or does it really depend on the denim manufacturer?
Tricia Carey: [00:13:54] Well, I think it really depends on the consumer, cause that's where the choice lies. But yeah, there's always that debate of wash or not to wash, does it go in the freezer or not? And I think, it's what someone's comfortable with. But for denim, I mean, if you look at the heritage of denim being a workwear item and the durability that it had in those early days of the miners working. And you know, you can wear it multiple times. It depends on your personal preference, I would say. But you know, there's also the character that how you wear and how you live in your denim that just makes it more and more your piece. And that's, what's incredible about denim. There's a uniqueness, a craft to it that you don't get with any other garment. That indigo that is applied, typically at the yarn stage, is what you're kind of breaking in and making it your own. And that's why you want to keep it Christopher. And you want to then patch it because you really love that pair of denim. So, as far as washing it, I think that that's a user preference, from a cleanliness standpoint, everyone can judge for themselves when it reaches that point of odor. But I don't think there's any right or wrong in it. But you need to consider what you're doing with your laundry detergents and what kind of pollution that has. Also, in the United States, we have a tendency to throw everything in the dryer. There's also ways that you could reduce your footprint by line drying and that's okay too.
Christopher Lacy: [00:15:29] You know, I have to say it there's a special place in my heart for line drying, because when I was growing up, my, my grandparents, they didn't have a dryer. And so my grandmother, I actually think my grandmother's still, I might have to go by there, line dries. And her like, I'm like, how come her clothes smells so good. It's insane. I, I've got to figure out a way to do that in an apartment situation. I don't know that they'll like that.
So, I want to ask you, you said, and you're right about this, denim is it was workwear and it means that it was resilient and is resilient. So as you look out at the industry over the next few years and what's happening right now, do we have sustainable fabrications that are also just as resilient? Like, so that the consumer really won't know the difference. They don't feel like they're buying, they're not sacrificing the resilience of the product for the consciousness of ethically buying.
Tricia Carey: [00:16:26] I think this also comes down to how retailers and brands, how they are developing the product. So, is there a product available out there? Absolutely. I love going to denim trade shows. When you walk into a room of the denim trade show, there might be 70 mills there and they all have their latest collections developed in garments. And they're highlighting to retailers and brands what can be done. Now, does that brand select that particular fabric at a certain level of quality, or is it always based on price? And really, where are we heading in our industry, denim as well as other aspects of the apparel industry, around redefining value? What does value mean anymore to the consumer? And what value is a retailer or a brand placing on a garment? When we get too price sensitive and we're just designing into price, then we forget to kind of look at all of those other aspects that are so important in the quality. And when I first started in the industry, fabrics using Tencel were eight to $10 a yard. And now, you know, the sweet spot where brands are looking for fabric is $2 and 50 cents, $3. We've actually lowered . The standard around value. And what happened to us having garments that we treasure, that we keep for a long time that we wear over and over? That's where I think we need to get back to. The quality is there, it's whether or not the consumer has the choice to buy it from the brand that they like, or does the consumer have to seek out a brand that they know and trust that brings that quality to them.
Christopher Lacy: [00:18:12] That's a great point. And the other guests, we've also discussed this idea of, it really is up to the consumer to really cherish the product that they purchase. And that is a mindset that's changing; and it changed for so many reasons, right? It's changed because, you know, some people might not want to be seen in the same outfits because the other part is, people can throw away more money. And I say throw away with huge quotation marks around that, but you know, it really is about instilling the sense of this is of value. And I think we've missed that in the industry of really conveying that to the customer these days. And that's all the way up to luxury. I don't think that we show what the artisan and craftsmanship and the way the material is made to our customers anymore. And that's a huge impact to our efforts as a sustainable and, and an ethical type of business.
Tricia Carey: [00:19:08] It really is. And, you know, as the rise of fast fashion and the access of cheap clothing became so readily available, whether it was in store or online, what has that really done to the garments, to the value, to the longevity? And, redefining value is also if you were spending $150 on a pair of jeans and you're going to wear them for 10 years, the cost per use is quite low versus a, you know, cheap pair of jeans that you wear once; you throw it away. Who's paying the cost when you throw it quote away, because where does away really mean? So, back to the fact that my mom always made me wear those hand-me-downs it's because there was nothing wrong with the fabric. There was nothing wrong with that garment, keep wearing it. So, where do we bring that treasure, that whole sense of the garments that we invest in, stay within our wardrobe?
Christopher Lacy: [00:20:03] I want to shift gears with you a little bit and talk about, we've touched on it a bit; I've said over this season quite often, the word sustainability means almost nothing now because we've used it in so many different ways. But one of the major pillars of sustainability is human capital. And social and community efforts, right? And human capital, funny enough, is always the thing that's looked at at the bottom of the totem pole. But at Lenzing, you experienced 2020, COVID the way we all did, but there was a difference in how you approached it because you're part of many organizations' supply chain. And there was no disruption. And I want to understand how did you all navigate that? I mean, weather through 2020, and by the looks of it, you have not missed a beat on your strategy for 2021, at all?
Tricia Carey: [00:20:55] Yeah. Christopher. Yeah, you're exactly right. So, first and foremost for Lenzing, I mean, we are a $2 billion plus company. We have seven manufacturing facilities around the world, more than 7,000 people working at the company. And throughout the pandemic, from the very beginning, it was always about safety for our workers. Whether that was workers, white collar workers in our offices or production workers in one of our factories.
And I think, you know, the company instilled a strong sense of making sure that everyone had PPE and the right cleaning products. We've done a lot to make sure that whether it's our employees here in New York, where we weren't working in the office for several months and now we're on a hybrid schedule, to even the workers in our plants monitoring, making sure everyone was abiding by local regulations. So, from that human standpoint, first and foremost, safety for our workers, as well as for suppliers to us within our general community of customers. We didn't stop production. Obviously, it was a challenging time where we didn't have as many orders, but all of our factories kept running. We did shift some of our business. We saw an increase on our non-woven side of our business. While I've been talking about our apparel and textiles, we also produce fiber that goes into non-wovens from cleaning wipes, baby wipes, personal hygiene products. So, that's a whole other end of our business which typically represents about 30% of what we produce. So, we did keep our factories running. And we stayed the course, our executives, our management stayed on strategy. We had a couple of major projects that we invested in. And those investments continued and we're on track to achieve those and complete those projects.
One of them is a new pulp facility in Brazil. And this will be coming on next year in 2022. And the other project is a new manufacturing facility in Thailand for our Tencel lyocell. And that will be starting the end of this year. So, these were major investment projects that we had prior to the pandemic. And we stayed the course that we're on track for those.
I think when we look at companies and how they reacted during the pandemic, especially in the beginning, if companies were strong financially and had the right people in place and the right strategy, then they were able to kind of weather this time, but it certainly has been very challenging in planning. We've had to be very flexible with the market. Be very close to listening to our customers and supporting them as much as possible. Because, if we didn't learn out of this time with the pandemic, it's all about collaboration and partnership.
Christopher Lacy: [00:23:55] I would have to say I'm so impressed by what you all have been able to do in the caring of detail to your team of employees, because I think if you are a brand and your goal is to create a better economy through what you produce, then you also have to think about what the human currency is and how you treat that. And so it was really amazing to read that and to see that, you know, you guys have amazing projects coming up.
So, saying that, as we're having this conversation right now, it's coming to the end of women's history month. But when this episode airs it'll, it'll be in April. But I, I would be remiss if I didn't talk to you about your experience in navigating the space of the world of denim and production and supply chain, which quite honestly has always been a very male driven world. And I would love for our listeners to kind of hear from you, you navigating that space to become who you are right now and who you will become in the future.
Tricia Carey: [00:25:01] Yes. I mean, it is very challenging on the textile side, even within Lenzing, in denim, it really is a male dominated industry. And I have to say throughout my career, I've had very supportive managers, both male and female as well as a very supportive husband that I've been able to continue working while balancing life with two children. And you know, many times I'm the only female in a meeting, but I really put that aside and it's looking at what contribution I can bring. Now, I think there's more awareness around balance and diversity in the workforce. And so where I really look at my role and what I can do in giving back and making it easier for the next generation of females coming into the industry, is how can I empower women more? How can I empower them more to speak up, to include them; that there is a seat at the table for women in this industry, whether it's in denim, in textiles and within what I can control within Lenzing and within our organization, how can we make it easier for each other? I think, you know, women have a unique position where we often have the role of caregiver for children, managing households, as well as balancing work. And as I said, I've been very fortunate to have some support factors throughout my career. And I hope to give that back to the industry even further. So, I think it was nice to have International Women's Day this year. It was a different chance to reflect on women in the industry. If you look through the pandemic, there's been many studies that have shown how women leaders have really risen to the occasion. And having women within decision-making process can really balance out and bring companies to the level that they need in order to continue for the future.
Christopher Lacy: [00:27:03] Yeah. I mean, those numbers are amazing. And I think the first thing you said when you went to respond was you understood how you could contribute. And the minute you set that, it automatically just even made me think of my own experiences in how do you navigate that space. And what I would say to anyone who's listening, and I've always said to anyone who's asked me is, you have the ability to be the solution to a problem, right? And your solution is different than someone else's perspective. And therefore that makes you valuable, no matter what it is you think could be the thing that draws you back. And it's really about how do I contribute to the situation. So, thank you for saying that in that first part of your sentence.
Tricia Carey: [00:27:50] Yeah, no for sure. And I think, you know, women, and if we can come out of this time, when you look at what's happened, even in the past five years. More equality in the workforce, there's a lot more that needs to be done. And that's where I look if I can help in some small way, then I feel like I've made that contribution back to help someone else.
Christopher Lacy: [00:28:11] And that's true sustainability. That's sustaining a business model. That's sustaining communities. That's ethical fashion right there. Right? Is, is everyone having a seat at the table, us being able to benefit the world.
How can our listeners stay up to date with what you're doing and all of the things that are happening at Lenzig? I, you know, how can people really stay up to date?
Tricia Carey: [00:28:39] Yeah, we have a lot of things going on. You can follow us at Tencel.com, on our Instagram, which is @TencelUSA , @TencelGlobal, or @TencelEurope. We do have some fabulous programs coming up for Earth Month, and we are a part of discover the SDGs. And we didn't even get to talk about that, Christopher, but we are working with the UN office of partnerships and the Conscious Fashion Campaign. If you go to DiscovertheSDGs.com, you can find out more on that platform.
I also sponsor a denim blog called Carved in Blue. So, carvedinblue.com. Or you can follow us on all the social media channels on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook and Twitter. Or you can also just follow me on LinkedIn, Tri quite active in posting what's happening in our world here at Lenzing. What Tencel brands are working on. So, there's a lot of ways to keep in touch, whatever your preferred social media channel is. We are there.
Christopher Lacy: [00:29:41] Now, you know, I have to call you out on the fact that you guys did start a podcast, so you have to give it a shout out. I mean, that's come on now.
Tricia Carey: [00:29:51] You're right, Christopher. We just started a podcast two days ago, called BlueCast. And this is a part of our social channels. We found that our audience was shifting a lot, getting a little bit tired of the webinars and zooms. And podcasts, as you know Christopher, after several series, you know, to how important it is, to connect to this way. So, you can go to Carved In Blue and see all of our episodes there under the podcast tab. Or, you can follow us at Blue Cast. And we've had some really exciting guests so far, with Levi's and the producer of River Blue. So, a fun new experiment in the world of podcasts. I'll have to get some tips from you afterwards.
Christopher Lacy: [00:30:37] I would, I would happily give them, I don't know if they would be good, but I'll I'll we can always chat about it.
Tricia, I want to thank you so much for bringing us your expertise and energy in today's conversation. I can't wait to see what's happening next with you and at Tencel.
Tricia Carey: [00:30:55] Thank you so much, Christopher, for having me today, it was really a pleasure to talk.
Christopher Lacy: [00:30:59] Thank you. Take care.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page at RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link.
Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell. Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.
