Transcript - Influencers and Authenticity

[00:00:00] Theme Music: Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in-depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives, technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future. Visit RetailRevolutionPodcast.com for more information, including full transcripts and follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn @RetailRevolutionPodcast. Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy. Both are assistant professors in the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design. 

[00:00:46] Maria Soubbotina: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Retail Revolution podcast. This is a special edition of Retail Revolution. And I'm your host Maria Soubbotina. And today I'm joined by Gabrielle Lamy, a fellow graduate student in the Fashion Management program at the Parsons School of Design.

[00:01:17] Gabrielle. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? 

[00:01:20] Gabrielle Lamy: Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Yes. My name is Gabrielle Lamy and I'm a graduate student at Parsons. I also work at a PR agency in Toronto. 

[00:01:32] Maria Soubbotina: Amazing. Gabrielle, what made you want to do your capstone project on influencer marketing?

[00:01:36] Gabrielle Lamy: Yeah. So I've been working at a PR agency in Toronto for a few years now. And one of the main things that I work on is influencer campaigns for a lot of different brands and a lot of different industries. And I've always had issues picking which influencers to work with, because there's no really guideline or any sort of formula to use, to figure out which influencer is going to give you the best results. So, I really just wanted to dig a little deeper and find out if there were any sort of key determinants to a successful influencer campaign.

[00:02:07] Maria Soubbotina: For sure. And can you share some of those key determinants that you found from your research so far? 

[00:02:12] Gabrielle Lamy: Yeah. It's kind of a balancing act. So one of them would have to be "reach." Without followers, your message or your brand message is not going to reach anybody. So there has to be a decent following there, but it's not everything. You also need "value alignment." So the values of the influencer need to align with the brand values. And I think that's really key for authenticity of the campaign. Otherwise, it kind of looks a little bit like a cash grab in some cases. And I think we've all seen those influencer campaigns where we're all a little shocked by the partnering or just doesn't seem genuine. And the third one is something that I like to call "localization." And what this means is being able to see yourself in an influencer shoes. So whether that be, they're the same age as you, or they like the same clothes, or maybe they live in your town, those are all things that I kind of put into localization. So, what I like, kind of like to use as an example, it's like Kim Kardashian might be promoting a product, but do I see myself as Kim Kardashian if she uses a certain cream? Not really. And I might be more likely to trust an influencer that is more my age, that lives in my area and that I maybe have more of a connection with. So yeah, those are my three main determinants that I've been studying. 

[00:03:28] Maria Soubbotina: And what would you say are some ways that influencers can ensure that their content aligns with the values of their followers?

[00:03:35] Gabrielle Lamy: I think that's kind of again, a balancing act, but one thing that influencers really, I hope that they're doing is, you know, taking a look at the insights that they get on the business end of Instagram and looking at, okay, who's actually engaging with my content? What age group is it? Is it females? It will even tell you their location. So you can even see is that people that live near me is that people that live in a different country. Those types of things. But at the same time, I also think that it's the influencers that need to kind of focus on their personal values and make content that inspires them and their followers that actually love them for them; we'll continue to follow them. Right? So I know for myself, I like to follow influencers that I genuinely love and I look forward to their content and that's the content I'm engaging with. So I think that's what we need to see more of in the industry. We need to see influencers that are making content that inspires them. And I think they'll see their followers will engage with that so much more. 

[00:04:33] Maria Soubbotina: Right. For sure. I think it's very transparent, and it shows a lot in the content that they produce. 

[00:04:39] Gabrielle Lamy: Absolutely. Yeah. And that's what I've been loving with kind of COVID-19 is like we see influencers in a whole new light. We're not seeing them jet setting across the world, or like sitting front row at New York Fashion Week. We're seeing them really kind of living everyday life. And I think it's kind of refreshing, you know, even celebrities we're seeing them like in their homes or they're posting more about their day-to-day lives. And I think it's actually become more engaging than their old content. So I really love seeing that.

[00:05:06] Maria Soubbotina: I definitely agree. And would you say there are certain taboos you think influencers face when it comes to marketing campaigns, whether that be sponsored or not sponsored? 

[00:05:14] Gabrielle Lamy: I would say so. I think it's really hard for influencers. They kind of get backlash either way, because if they do a paid promotion, you're going to have people critique it. You're going to have people say like, oh, you know, it's a cash grab or whatever, but then if they're not doing paid promotions, they're also missing out on, making a living. And it's a competitive industry and there's a lot of influencers that are going to take that paid promotion. That's also how you see your followers grow. You might get more reach that way. If you do a paid promotion, the brand might promote you on their page. So it's really having that pros and cons, but I think they just need to be a little bit more restrictive in the period promotions that they choose to do and really take a look at, okay, is this a product that I actually love? And I actually use in my day-to-day life. And I think if that's the case, then go ahead and promote. But if it's just a product that you don't really have any sort of tie with. I think it really comes across that way. And you can tell in the caption, when it seems forced. And that's why even on like the PR side, I love having influencers write their own caption. And we'll kind of review it, make sure all the legal stuff is okay. Like the product name is correct and all that sort of stuff. But I don't like to edit their tone because I think even just on my personal Instagram, when I'm scrolling, I can tell when a paid promotional post was written by the company, it's just so awkward. It doesn't sound like them. And I think that is a really big issue. I think it still needs to sound like it's coming from them or else. It just does not look genius. 

[00:06:45] Maria Soubbotina: Yeah, for sure. You can definitely tell like the voice, even though if it's written, you can. Yeah. 

[00:06:49] Gabrielle Lamy: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:06:51] Maria Soubbotina: And what do you think we, as consumers can expect from influencers going forward in the future, especially after COVID-19 and everything this past year?

[00:07:01] Gabrielle Lamy: I would say that I hope we can expect some more transparency. I think we've definitely seen it. more authentic content and things like that, but I think influencers are starting to realize that their followers want transparency. So they want to know if it was a PR package or they want to know if a trip was sponsored and they want to know those things.

[00:07:21] And I think they deserve to know, because at the end of the day, the followers are the ones giving an influencer their power, so to speak, right? Without their followers, they don't have their reach. And that at the end of the day is their job. So I think it is kind of fair for their following to want to know if, "Hey, are you getting paid to give this amazing review? Are you getting paid to talk about this product?" And I think we're seeing it. Put in place to kind of protect that and make sure that it's not coming across as though it's just organic content, but they're actually being paid for it. But I think influencers are starting to actually do this more and more.

[00:07:58] And I think with kind of these big social events that have happened, social movements that have happened in this past year, I think we're seeing a lot more influencers talking about these massive issues. And they're not just talking about clothes or makeup or whatever it may be, but they're actually bringing light to these issues. They're posting about it. They're also wanting to learn about it, which I think is really important because, you know, I don't expect an influencer to know everything and to educate their entire following as long as they're being transparent about it. And then like, "Hey, I don't really know much about this topic. Can you guys send me resources and I'll share them?" Things like that I think is really amazing because we're all learning. And I think that they're not pretending to be something they're not. And I think that's a great way to not have sort of those PR issues where they're just posting about an issue to post about it. We don't want that, that fakeness and we want it to be authentic. So that's what I'm looking forward to, a lot more authenticity and a lot more transparency 

[00:08:54] Maria Soubbotina: I definitely agree. And just because I have to ask this, is there a favorite influencer that you have that you follow? Or that you think does a really great job at being transparent and authentic and talking about various social justice movements and diversity and stuff like that?

[00:09:10] Gabrielle Lamy: Ooh, that's a really good question. I have a few, I would say I really love Allegra Shaw. She's a Toronto influencer. And again, that was kind of my inspiration for the localization part of my project because she lives in my city. She lives in Toronto. So, when she posts about a restaurant or she posts about a new store or something, I'm immediately like, okay, I trust your recommendation because I can see myself in her shoes a little bit. Like I want to do the things that she's doing. And I think that she posts really great fashion inspiration, but she also has a lot of content that is just more about life in general. And she has a YouTube channel where she does that. But there's so many new creators coming out. One thing I love about my job is that we have a talent agency called Double Shot, where it's all about diversity and inclusion in new content creators. So I'm just loving, seeing all these new content creators kind of come to life. But that would probably be one of my favorites. Yeah. 

[00:10:06] Maria Soubbotina: Perfect. Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today, Gabrielle. I really appreciate it. 

[00:10:14] Thank you, Maria was so much fun.

[00:10:19] Theme Music: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page at RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.

[00:10:38] Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.