Transcript - Carissa Barrett

Season 3, Episode 13

Conversation with Carissa Barrett, VP Retail, Byredo

Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in-depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing, with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail, as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future. 

Visit retailrevolutionpodcast.com for more information, including full transcripts. And follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn @retailrevolutionpodcast. 

Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy. Both are assistant professors in the Fashion Management graduate program at Parsons School of Design. 

Christopher Lacy: Our guest today has over 18 years of progressive management experience and 25 years of experience in retail. She has worked for organizations such as Barneys New York, St. Laurent and Giorgio Armani.

Currently, Carissa Barrett is vice president of retail at Byredo a luxury fragrance brand that has expanded its offering into leather goods, eyewear, and most recently cosmetics. Carissa's proven track record for performance and productivity management, as well as client and team development has made her a retail revolutionary. 

 Today, she discusses strategizing different business categories, customer engagement, and how to be an inspirational leader for frontline retail teams. This is Retail Revolution podcast, and I'm your host, Christopher Lacy.

Hey, Carissa welcome to the show. 

Carissa Barrett: Hi Chris. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here this morning. 

Christopher Lacy: Me too.  it's so funny because we have a lot of history, so we'll talk about that, but we have, quite a few common denominators and plus we're both Geminis. So, I feel like this meeting could have happened months ago. 

Carissa Barrett: For sure. I feel like I've known you for my whole life. Just because we've had so many paths cross over and we both worked for Barneys for a long time, so. 

Christopher Lacy: Yeah, we both worked for Barneys. You worked for St. Laurent while I was working for Gucci. I started my career with Giorgio Armani at age 17.

 And then we both have a passion for Byredo, but before we get into all that, would you tell us some highlights of your career and your expertise and, tell our listeners a little bit about your current position? 

Carissa Barrett: Sure. I mean, it's been 25 years.  I started in retail when I was 14 years old. I think it's been in my blood this entire time. You know, it started at a candy ice cream store when I was 14 and was always working in retail since then. And went to college for sociology and English and just kind of fell into the path of retail as everyone says, you know, it just kind of happens. But I'm so glad it did because I think it was my calling in life.

And I found it at such a young age. So, it's really exciting that I'm still here. And started with Byredo about five years ago as the store director of the Wooster Street store and overseeing wholesale leather goods for the US.  And that was an interesting time for the brand. It was our first store in the US and Ben brought me on board himself. I had lunch with him, a chance meeting and four hours later we were on the same page about everything we wanted out of this brand in the US and retail and the strategy and the culture. And, five years later, I'm now the vice president of retail. We're opening up stores even during the middle of this pandemic.

So, we just opened Texas. We have Wooster, which has been open for five years. We have Melrose Avenue in LA, which has been open since February. And I'm about to go to San Francisco and open the store there, opening December 1st. So, it's a very exciting time for us. 

Christopher Lacy: That's awesome. I might meet you in San Francisco, you know, I love, I love that town.

Carissa Barrett: It would be amazing if you could, I already have my restaurants, booked all over the city. 

Christopher Lacy: I would, but I know that you'll put me to work and then I'll end up doing stock work in the back, like getting set up. I don't need any more store openings in my life. 

I want to talk to you because Ben is a very interesting character and his career is also really cool, cause he started out as a model.  Started this line, then went into leather. Now, eyewear. Now, cosmetics. And it's really cool to work for somebody, I would think, who really has reinvented themselves. Right? It makes it easier for you to work with them. I would think, you know, that would be fun for me. And I think about you and your career changed in that way, right?

I mean, you started in ready-to-wear, now you're in the beauty industry. What's that like? And how are you approaching it and how much fun is it to work for Ben? I asked you about five questions at one time. 

Carissa Barrett: I'll start with Ben. I mean, I have to say, when I first met him, I was, you know, working at St. Laurent on 57th street as a store director; I felt like I hit the pinnacle of my career. I was like, this is where I want to be. And I met him for lunch and I just realized that I can really do something with him and build a brand. And he really believed in me and I believed in him and I feel like that partnership still stands true to this day and we have a very special relationship. And I think with the brand in general, he has a very special relationship with the brand. And everything that he does is very meticulous and well thought out. And, there's a lot of emotion and energy that comes behind everything that we do. And, it really shows and resonates in all the different projects.

And I think with my career going from, you know, when I was young in my first days I was doing visual merchandising at Bloomingdale’s on Long Island and working with tabletop and bedding and you know, Costa Boda when I was 16 years old. and then it transformed to Border's Books and Music to Urban Outfitters, and then really started my career in luxury with Barneys. And, going from ready-to-wear to, at the time when I was at Barneys, I did cosmetics. So, I ran the NARS counter at the 18th street Co-op and all of the beauty. And that's where I first learned about Diptique and Fresh and it was really a fun time. It was really a fun time for the brand. And then fashion was always like my passion and my life, cause you know, I was going out all the time. So, I had a new outfit to wear, you just really were on the pulse of all the trends. And it was a fun time, cause there was a lot of good designers coming out. It was, when Diane Von Furstenberg re-did the wrap dress and she had us going to her showroom and showing us like what was happening through the whole process. And it was special. It was really special. But I'd have to say navigating between the two, I treat all of the clientelling efforts and the way I work, the same in every environment that I'm in. I think it's a lot, like people with the beauty industry are just like, it's selling itself. But I have to say, when I started at Byredo, it wasn't selling itself.

It was because we needed the visibility, the market visibility, people didn't know who we were. Once they smelled a fragrance, they were hooked, but it was like, how do you get them hooked? And how do you keep them coming back into the store? And at the time when they opened the Wooster Street store, it was scaffolding over the store. There was no one on the block. Gucci wasn't there then, Simone Rocha, Gentle Monster wasn't there. It was just us and Celine really. So, it wasn't a destination. So, it was really putting the time, energy and effort into re-network into the Soho environment; getting to know your neighbors. And for me, it's really about hiring the right team. Because once you have the right team to help support you in the process, I feel like everything else just kind of comes together. 

Christopher Lacy: Yeah. I agree with you. I think the funnest part for me doing ready-to-wear, having leather goods, that cosmetics floor, the foundation's floor, and that business of fragrance, there is a little bit of difference for me with how much fun I got to have engaging with the customers.

There's this different kind of way people engage with products for their body, that's just different than how they do with retail and with  ready-to-wear And. the Byredo space was pretty much where I always was because I wanted to just smell different every day and you know this cause you would come down and be like, what's up?

I'm like yeah, I guess we can talk about business right now. But you know, I think there's this aspect of the fragrance industry and the cosmetics industry, that it really kind of lets you paint yourself differently from the inside out. I don't know that I'm using the right words, but there's this emotion I have around it that I can't even create my outfits until I know what my scent is going to be for the day. And some people have the same scent all the time.

Carissa Barrett: Some do. But I would have to say the industry is changing so much. And what you were talking about is emotions. Like everything in fragrance is very emotional. I felt like when I switched over from ready-to-wear and I started Byredo and I'm on the floor and clients were coming in and they wanted to talk about their smell memories. Like, this smells like my mom's cooking when I was a child. This smells like my wedding day. This smells like somebody I know. And they're trying to like articulate these smell memories while they're smelling the fragrances. And there's something so beautiful and unique about that experience, not only that the client is having, that I'm having with the client and that we're having together. Because you're creating these memories for this person that they'll never forget that smell, because they had that experience with you in the boutique and they walk away and it's just like a fun, emotional, smiling, very intimate experience that you're having with the client as opposed to ready-to-wear, is so different.

You know, sizes and you're trying to say how they're looking in this; and it's a very body experience. And fragrance and cosmetics and candles and home is very sensorial experience. It's very emotional.  And I really liked that aspect of the business. 

Christopher Lacy: You make a good point. It's not so much about body as it is about the inner part of you. And so, there is a bit more comfort level. There's also a trust that happens just seeing how people engage with beauty counters and the trust and wanting the knowledge of it. And whether it's apothecary or, does this smell make me feel this way?

And, this smell makes me a little bit more calm. I mean, it really is quite interesting how it goes into the psyche of the customer. And I'm wondering, I want to know your thoughts on this.  COVID-19 impacted a lot of business categories, but what we're seeing is that beauty and fragrance sales are actually quite strong.

 And I want to know from your perspective, what do you think is the reason for that? Because you all launched cosmetics during a really tough time. 

Carissa Barrett: Yeah. I mean, we have color sticks, lipsticks, mascara, and eyeliner and I was just wondering, what it was going to be like for people buying lipstick right now where, you know, I think it's all about the eyes, obviously, cause we're all wearing masks, but the lipstick sales have been just as strong as everything else and it's really phenomenal time for us. We're getting so much press, we put so much energy and effort and work behind this whole project. I mean, Ben and Isamaya and the whole collaboration between the two of them. It really almost gave people life, I feel like. Everyone's having a really rough time right now, globally. Around the world. It's not just affecting us in the US. So, I feel like something fun and playful and light, and you can just use, it's a very easy product to use. You're playing with it. You're having fun with it. You're feeling the emotion behind it. And you can create a variety of different looks, bright colors, destroyers, whenever our black color sticks, where it's like dark and “gothy,” it brings me back to my childhood and it's just something for everyone in the collection. And men and women are buying it. And it's just a really fun, playful time. And I feel like the price point for cosmetics or even fragrance; and I'm seeing this throughout the entire industry; it's obviously still a luxury item, but it's not a jacket for like $4,000, you know. It's kind of in that entry level price point where they can still have of a luxury item and feel like they're doing something fun for themselves during this time period. And I feel like that's what's kind of setting us apart right now. 

Christopher Lacy: You brought up something with cosmetics that's really important. I think when anyone is looking at businesses and looking at client engagement, is that the cosmetics, that the beauty industry I'll say, the beauty industry does a very good job of bringing the aspirational client into or that entry price point client into the luxury space. And I think it brings them in safely, right? 

Carissa Barrett: Yeah, definitely. 

Christopher Lacy: Yeah and I think that's what makes it fun to all of the points you just made, which is really, when you look at that beauty industry, I look at it and I go, what is it that the beauty industry does that, ready-to-wear can learn from, and that a shoe business can learn from especially right now. You brought up the fact that what you're doing right now and, whether it's a color palette or a scent, it's either taking you back to a place that felt really good, or it's transporting you to a place that you feel good. And right now, we are definitely in that spot.

Carissa Barrett: Yeah.

Christopher Lacy: And I'm looking forward to talking to you about how you are making this happen amongst your team and strategizing that across the stores as you're opening during this time. 

Carissa Barrett: Yeah, I think a couple of points I want to touch on is when somebody is buying a fragrance and you have that memory, for example, for me during quarantine, there's a couple of fragrances that remind me of my travels to Paris or to Italy or to when I went to Morocco. And I'd spray them in the morning and I'm like, I am in Paris today, I'm not in my apartment, and I'm going to go out and have this feeling today, memories of Paris, because that's all I can have today. So, there's something special in that moment. And I feel like a lot of people are tapping into that, that feeling right now with fragrance, and the industry as a whole. And that's why it's starting to explode even more during this time and the pandemic. And having a candle in your house that's burning and you're like, it has that special feeling to you that even though you're home, you're making it something unique and special for that time and that moment in your life. And I think that's really interesting for people. 

Christopher Lacy: That's the pleasure of beauty, smell, touch. It really is bringing together every single emotion that we have. 

Carissa Barrett: And to touch on how we're inspiring the teams and kind of laying out what our strategy is and what we're doing right now as a brand. I mean, we're probably one of the only companies right now, opening stores during a pandemic. But we are also seeing that this won't be forever in our lives. There might be some portion of it. We kind of, it's like a big unknown, but there's a lot of opportunities right now in the market to strategize for where we want to open.

And this has  been a process of ours since I've started five years ago, of what cities we wanted to go to, where our e-com clients are shopping, where do we have market visibility in the US and really kind of not stopping just because we're in the middle of a pandemic, but kind of opening those stores and announcing ourselves into the market. And it's proven to be successful so far for us. 

Christopher Lacy: As a VP of stores, how do you effectively strategize for each location to ensure their success? You know, there's different approaches where most people can go into any store anywhere and it's the exact same experience. That's not a bad thing. There's the consistency of it. You could go to any city and it always feels the same. Byredo is definitely a different feel.  I don't know if that's a strategy that would work for you at Byredo and I'd love to get your thoughts on that.

Carissa Barrett: We have so many different processes to come to where we want to open. I think, all of our stores globally, and I've opened Paris store, I've opened the London store, I was in Dubai opening for a pop-up and I opened the store in Seoul in Korea. So, I really got to see about nine stores for us come to life globally now. And each store is so unique, in the design, in the neighborhood, in the product placement, the architecture, and the staff. And, I think that's what's really special about Byredo is that people know that each store is going to be unique so that when they're coming to that city, they want to visit us.

They want to see what London looks like. They want to see what Paris looks like. And I think it creates this fun experience for the client who's traveling around the world or, was in a different city where there's a Byredo boutique. But what really goes into that is knowing our market visibility. I think that's so important. And I think we've learned along the way that we need to ensure that we already have clients in those areas before we open a boutique. 

And we just opened Texas and North Park, last month. And we're opening up San Francisco. So, we have already discovered that we have client bases in these markets, through our wholesale accounts, which a lot of them have been around, between 5 and 10 years.

So, we get to see where that business is before we kind of make the decision. We can see the visibility of where e-commerce clients are shopping in those markets, which is a very important part of the process. 

Christopher Lacy: Carissa you talk about the opening of stores and strategizing, really what markets you want to go into. You bring up a very good point of the relationship between wholesale accounts and retail accounts. Now I you and I both know this because we've worked on the retail side, we've worked on the wholesale side, the people in their retail stores are always upset when a wholesale account opens. A wholesale account gets upset when a retail store opens. How have you managed that relationship so that you aren't cannibalizing the business with the clients?

How does this relationship work for Byredo and for you? 

Carissa Barrett: Yeah, I would have to say, like in every company that I've worked in, not only just Byredo, I've been a huge proponent that wholesale and retail and e-com should be an omni-channel experience for the client. It shouldn't be a different experience where they go and we shouldn't have that kind of animosity in the same company, when we're all fighting to make the same goals. And it's really to make the clients happy and make sure your teams are happy. And I find that when we've opened another account before, it doesn't cannibalize the other business. It actually helps the other business. So, the retail and wholesale experiences are different because obviously a department store has multiple categories. And in the retail store, you see many of Byredo categories in one place.

So, we do a lot of cross trainings together where we bring wholesale and retail together. So anytime, like for example, we're launching makeup. We had the wholesale teams from Saks come into the store and we did the training together. That way the teams can meet each other. They can make contacts. If they sell out of something, they should be calling each other.

We treat it as a part of our business. And I think that is the best way to go. It's no stress, there's no anxiety. It's just like opening another store. It's not because somebody works for Saks, they're not part of Byredo, they're part of our family, they're part of our team, no matter what. And I think having that outlook as a leader, it's trickles down to the teams. And they don't have that kind of anxiety. We're all lucky because we're working in an industry where there's business out there right now. So, everyone kind of gets a piece of the big pie and it's how we go about it and how we treat each other internally as a team.

And I think that's the important part of being successful right now. And as an omni-channel presence in the market, you also need to treat your e-com clients the same as retail clients and, kind of have the same experience across the board. Obviously, nothing's ever perfect, but we're really striving as a brand to become that way consistently a hundred percent of the time.

Christopher Lacy: Awesome. It's very important to understand that there isn't competition in it. But you can definitely grow your business through collaboration. And we'll talk more about how you do that in your stores with your teams and customer relationships in just a moment.

So, I want to ask you, Carissa. How do you inspire your teams? Because this is a time of crisis. It's a time of social concern. You at Byredo, you all had to board up your stores in certain cities, again, as you talked about the plan to open stores. So, there's definitely that aspect where your teams were really worried. And here you are trying to be the captain of the ship.

And I'd love to know, what were some things you relied on to inspire them? How do you continue to inspire them? I mean, we're definitely not necessarily out of the woods yet. 

 Carissa Barrett: No, we're not out of the woods. I have a feeling this is gonna be going on for at least another year. You know, when everything first started, I really looked at this as a leader, the most important time in our entire career. It's a time for empathy and compassion, agility to play a major role in our daily lives inside, and outside of work. And I think everyone is going through the same thing in different ways.

You really have to understand that not everybody’s processing this the same way you are. When we first decided to, reopen the New York store in July, during the whole time that everybody was quarantined, I worked on a come-back-to-action plan. I attended a lot of seminars to find out about what other brands were doing for their employees, for the clients to be safe when we came out of this. And we put together an action plan for all the stores in the US and I thought, what a better way to execute this and make sure it works for my teams is to work in the store myself for an entire month, with the team in July. So, I put myself into the Wooster Street store five days a week, which we were only open five days a week at that time. And I worked in the store to make sure that this plan worked, engaging with the clients, making sure we felt safe, touching base with the team on a regular basis as to what was going on in the markets and really being agile, being able to take the feedback and say, okay, this isn't working, let's try this instead.

And I think being there on the floor, in the flesh, supporting the store, I think it was really important; really important to understand what to do and what not to do and how to support the teams.  And continuing that process. I've been in the store. I was just in the Wooster Street store yesterday to check on the team and see how everything's going.

And it's really having an open-door policy. And everybody comes to me with questions, concerns, and being able to be agile during this time. Like, some things are not going to work, and some things are going to work and there's so many different experiences and really trying to make sure that everyone feels comfortable during this time period.

 Christopher Lacy: Yeah and speaking of comfort, there's the side of employee needing to feel comfortable. But then you also have the in-store engagement. And, the thing about the beauty industry is, is that it is very much, close proximity. I mean, it's definitely much more personal. I mean, especially when we talk about fragrances and we talk about  the launch of lipsticks and things like that. And there's definitely a personal barrier that you guys have to think about. So, how do you see this in-store customer engagement evolving for you guys throughout this next year?

Do you see it changing much? Are you concerned at all? 

Carissa Barrett: Well, you know, clients have, and the teams have been really great. It's about communicating. So, when somebody walks in, you let them know the new guidelines that are happening. People are still allowed to smell the fragrances. We have markers on the floor to keep everybody six feet apart. We're not putting makeup on anyone's face for obvious reasons right now. But you know, we have a lot of alcohol cleaning elements. And if they want to swatch the lipstick, we also have tools where they can take them and try them on themselves. They can't try and lipstick in the store right now so it's kind of the only really big hurdle because you can't take off your mask. But we have face charts, so we're kind of molding ourselves to, and adapting to, the new environment. And I think that the clients feel safe. And I think you have to gauge people's reactions. Do you feel comfortable? Do you want to swatch it directly on your skin and we'll clean it afterwards? Or do you want to use the lipstick brush and then throw it out in the garbage can right down there for you that's touchless? And I think, everybody's comfort level is different. So, you kind of just let the clients know that it's a touchless environment, but we are able to do these things for you.

And I think people are really happy that they don't have to, it's not too far away from the norm, what we've been doing before, to be honest. Because we always sprayed the fragrance onto a card for the client and pass them the cards so that they can smell. And we have that one-on-one personalized relationship and that experience with the client even before COVID.

Christopher Lacy: Yeah, I have to say, I think, the point that you make about communication is extremely key right now. And I've seen some scenarios where the communication has actually been quite confusing, especially if you look at visual communication. Some stores where the arrows that are on how you move about the store. Some of the arrows like put you right back where you were before. You're like, wait, this isn't- 

Carissa Barrett: You're like is this green or red, which way am I going? 

Christopher Lacy: Right. It's a very weird version of like Chutes and Ladders or something. I'm not really sure what's happening, but you end right back at start. And so I think, you know, having a team that's able to communicate and feels empowered to communicate. 

When we talk about communication, many people don't think about what a frontline employee is having to experience in those moments where customers aren't always nice. TA-DAA!

How were you giving them that ability to be resilient? And I want to ask you this because you and I have quite similar management styles. I mean, you definitely don't have a traditional approach to much of what you do. And it's really important for us to discuss how are you giving your team's resilience and that support, with those difficult moments? 

 Carissa Barrett: Well, I think, you know, I don't micromanage. Like I let my teams make their own judgment calls and their decisions. And I think that really helps empower them during this time period. But obviously we have bi-weekly calls with the management team, and we talk about issues like, somebody came in and they weren't wearing their mask, how do we handle that situation together? And it's having that verbiage and being nice about it and just saying, "Oh, I think you forgot to put your mask on before you came into the boutique." And you know what, honestly, most people are, we're walking around in a daze cause we have so much going on in the world really heavy, that sometimes people honestly, just forget they get excited during the moment and they'd take their mask down to smell something and you're like, you have to keep the mask on in the boutique. And I think it's just a matter of just in a nice way, reminding people, we are in a closed environment. We're trying to keep ourselves safe. And people are reacting really well to the feedback, and I think it's an unfortunate time where you kind of have to police a little bit more than you were honestly, before all of this was happening, and just reminding people about the new norm  and what to expect. But overall, when their guards down, when they come into the store and they're kind of waiting for you to say something, they want you to tell them what to do. You know, and I think that there's a respect level there. And then once you get into the sale with the client, the team is really good about, voicing their concerns, I think, with the clients. And I think that creates also a dynamic between the client and the sales associate and a level of respect as well.

Christopher Lacy: There you go, I mean, clear communication, respect, supporting your teams. That's what we do. That's what you do. And that's really important to make sure that this environment is conducive of the emotional state that you want people to be in when they're considering purchasing any products, not just in a Byredo store. But I definitely think that's something we can all take away from what you just said.

 So, I want to ask you a couple of personal things about you, the Carissa Barrett. And the reason I want to ask you about this is, and you know this, we've talked about this, you are not the traditional look of the woman who's in luxury. I mean, you aren't right? You chart your own territory.

I mean, I love that you would have different hair colors. And as you joked earlier, your goth look sometimes and that rocker style that you have. And you're in luxury and you're doing well in luxury and you belong there. And I want to talk to you about that. How did you find your comfort in this space?

Carissa Barrett: That's a good question. It's funny too, when I interview a lot of people and they get on the zoom call, they're not expecting me. So, I see the reaction on their face, they're like, “oh cool, she's got tattoos. She's got her head shaved on the side and, very, uh, warm and friendly.”

And, I think, you know, for me it took, I mean, a long time for me to find the company that allowed me to be myself. And I think that's really important for anyone who works in retail is, you need to find the safe space for you, where you're allowed to be yourself. That you're not judged for having a tattoo or a haircut, that isn't on-brand.  So, it's finding your niche and finding that brand that resonates with you, your personal sense of style and kind of where your soul feels at home, and it's really interesting that you asked that question because I've never felt more at home anywhere than I have at Byredo. And I feel like that is where I really started to be able to be myself in the sense of style that I have. And clients really resonate with it. Because when you're able to be comfortable at work, the clients feel everything. They feel when you walk into the store, you know when you walk into a store, I know you know too, when there's not good management and the team, you feel the energy, and I think it resonates in all positions within a brand and needs to start from the top down. It can't just be on the store level. It has to be in corporate where people are feeling comfortable in their own skin and being able to be individuals. And I feel like the industry is shifting back to that a little bit more. I'm sensing that in a lot of other companies that I'm noticing a lot of people that are able to really feel themselves at work. It's huge. It's a huge part of the business is when people are happy in their own skin at work and they're able to be themselves, it's really gonna resonate into the business, into the sales, into the clienteling, the customer, everything. 

Christopher Lacy: Something about being able to be yourself as you bring up, it makes you far more productive, right? Because now you can free up that mental space for something else. Right? You're not putting up a wall that, as a leader, we all have had that moment where at the end of the day you were like, I just want to sit in a room, and it be dark. And I don't want anyone to talk to me. Because you're engaging with the emotions of so many people and you're trying to be a good leader and inspiring.

How do you keep yourself inspired? Especially right now, because you're impacted by everything that's happening too. It's not like, if you're a retail leader, that you're separate from it. So, how are you navigating it? What is your go-to? What are you, how are you feeding yourself right now? 

Carissa Barrett: Yeah, I think a lot of it is self-care. And that's another thing that I really learned later on in my career. In the beginning part of my career, it was just like, go, go, go, run, run, run until you burn yourself into the ground. And I think, especially now for all of us, we need to take that day off, whatever it is. And for me, I need a day to hibernate. But it's really self-care. It's like either I sit down and read a book, I work out, I go for a walk outside, a bike ride around Prospect Park, just to get some, fresh air and, zone out for a second and get within my head, in my own thoughts, again. And I think what really also helps me is being in the stores too. Because you feed off the energy of your teams and you can put the energy back in for them and you kind of, you do it together and you have those days and you're like, we did it! And right now, we should be thanking everyone for even coming to work. This is such a crazy time. It's like, thank you for coming into work. It's a thank you for being here and being present. And really taking care of the business. And I know this time is difficult and I think, telling my managers, like taking time for yourself, doing your selfcare, you have a nice dinner last night with your husband and have some wine? You know? And making sure everyone is taking those moments for themselves as well on the teams is very important.

Christopher Lacy: I think what you may have said, that's the most important is the flow of gratitude, right? The flow of gratitude of, I think we've seen in many corporations and organizations that the employees should be thankful that they have at job. But the other side of that is you really have to be thankful for those employees that, I mean, yeah, they are coming in to make money, but they're also coming in to also make sure that the brand itself stays profitable and productive. And so that path of gratitude definitely needs to go both ways.

Carissa Barrett: Yeah. And I feel like in the industry even more so now is, I've experienced in so many companies where it doesn't go both ways. And you always have to remind yourself when you know, I've come from, working in part-time sales to now where I am today.

So, I understand the process of how hard you have to work to get to where you are. And I think, reminding yourself when you get to the corporate positions to never forget where you came from. And the teams and how they feel and putting yourself in their shoes. It's the compassion and empathy part that's really playing a major part, a major key role right now in our industry. 

Christopher Lacy: I don't think I could end this in any better way than with the words, compassion and empathy, cause I know we need it right now. And there's not enough of it going around.

So, Carissa how do our listeners stay up to date with you? Stay up to date with what's happening at Byredo? Give us something.

Carissa Barrett: Well, I'm really engaging on LinkedIn. I think I was probably one of the first members on LinkedIn. I'm dating myself, but that's how you can follow me. And I'm constantly posting articles about what's going on with Byredo. You can check out byredo.com as well. We have all of these fun launches and product's development that's happening on the website as well. If you want to keep up with Byredo. 

Christopher Lacy: Awesome. Carissa, thank you so much for making the time to talk to us today. It is such a pleasure as always. 

Carissa Barrett: It was so fun. Thank you for having me. 

Christopher Lacy: Take care. 

Carissa Barrett: Bye.

Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page at retailrevolutionpodcast.com. And click on the donate link. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell. Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.

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