Transcript - advent

Season 3, Episode 16

Conversation with Zi Xuan and Yijia Wang, Co-Creators, advene

Joshua Williams: Retail Revolution, a unique podcast that features in depth conversations with guest experts in omni-channel retailing with myriad perspectives: technology, consumer engagement, data analytics, merchandising, and more. We pay special attention to current sociopolitical issues and challenges and their implications on fashion retail as well as opportunities to innovate and rethink retail's future. 

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Retail Revolution is produced by Joshua Williams and hosted by Christopher Lacy, both are assistant professors in the fashion management graduate program at Parsons School of Design.

Christopher Lacy: They are a dynamic duo who are changing retail, design principles and collaboration through their newly launched brand Advene, a thoughtfully designed accessories brand for everyday adventures. Yijia Wang and Zi Xuan are here with me today to discuss the highs and lows of starting a brand during a pandemic, the future of retail and changing the industry for the better. 

This is Retail Revolution podcast with Christopher Lacy.

Welcome to the show. How are you both today? 

Yijia Wang: We're good, we're very excited to be here Christopher, thank you for having us. 

Zi Xuan: Thank you for having us, Chris. 

Christopher Lacy: You know, I told you guys, when we met over the summer, I said, I'm going to have to have you on the podcast one day. And I couldn't think of a better time, because you guys have some pretty exciting news to share with everyone.

 Yijia Wang: Yes, we've launched. 

Zi Xuan: Yeah. We finally launched and it's very exciting. And we're finally here. 

Christopher Lacy: Yay, I'm super excited. So, for the listeners, I had the pleasure of being a mentor for Yijia and Zi, as they started their process launching Advene. And now, seeing it in fruition, it's really been amazing for me and I'm sure for the two of you. 

I would love for you to each tell our listeners just a little bit about your backgrounds because you two have different backgrounds. So, the fact that you've come together on this project is really an interesting part of this entire story. So, if you wouldn't mind starting that off? 

Yijia Wang: Of course.

So, I graduated actually from a quantitative economics background. So, I'm good at math. And then I went to marketing, being a mixed modelling analyst and attribution. So, dealing with numbers and analyze how people react to advertisement. And then, I always have a passion for design. And I think product innovation is a core part for a brand to grow. So, I went to Parsons for master in Design Studies. While I have tried to exploring all this me, myself, is very interested in, you know, purchase a handbag that is conscientiously made, but at the same times, unique enough to express who I am.

So, I went through a research and find on the market, is either something that is generic, but coming from a sustainable brand, or something that is really unique, but cost a lot. So, I started to talk with my longterm friend Zi. 

Zi Xuan: So, for me, I, actually started my first degree in literature. But then I realized that my true passion is actually in dealing with things with my hand, looking at things visually. So, I decided to come to Fashion Institute of Technology to study Accessories Design. 

And after that, I worked for brands like Marc Jacobs and Coach as handbag designer.  And then along the way, I really feel like my passion is to create something my own and really to have my voice heard. So, that was the time it really clicked right away when Yijia started to reach out to me to have this conversation. 

 Christopher Lacy: So, what was the first conversation that you guys had that you were like, we're starting this company. How did that come about? I mean, I call my friends all the time to talk about things I'm frustrated by, but I don't, we haven't actually launched a brand yet.

Yijia Wang: I know it's so we always have long conversations about how consumers react to certain products, how brands grow and how the landscape of consumerism has been evolving year over year.  But at a point, when I was like really coming from very personal needs for a handbag, we did the research together because  obviously Zi knows better about handbags than I do.

So, we visited every department store we could visit and research about all the brands, but we just find there's a void in the market. There's nothing kind of unique, but also consciously considered, at a fairly priced. 

 So, we thought people really deserve better and we want to take the challenge.

 Zi Xuan: So, that is also an opportunity for us to take on this kind of challenge and really use that expertise  on both of our ends and then to create a brand as an outlet for us to express that. 

 Christopher Lacy: One of the aspects of what Advene does is, you are quite conscious about materiality  and, supply chain.  We've been talking about it in the fashion industry for years now, and we have a lot of startups out there and people were conscious about this. I'd love for you to really talk about where Advene fits in this space. What are you doing when it comes to this respecting the supply chain, respecting the workers and the craftsmanship? 

 Yijia Wang: So, for us, we're really looking at it through like a more systematic evaluation, because, first of all, when you are considering design a handbag, you really need to think about the material that you use. So, sometimes it's easy when you're talking about sustainability to use things that are vegan, but when you really look deeply into the market of vegan leather, actually, anything that doesn't contain any animal product could be called vegan leather. So, when we really looked into that, it's either PU which really raised an environmental dilemma for some customers. And there's also biofabrication. So, labs like Modern Meadows, are developing materials that consist of like fruits or proteins. But we are keeping a very close eye on that because it's still under development. So, after all of this research, we feel like leather is the answer to us. We do know that the process of tanning leather, it's a big problem worldwide, everyone knows that. So for us, the only way we can solve that is really finding leather in the best tanneries, so we can monitor the whole process.

So, our answer is to only pick cow leather from scope-C, gold standard tanneries certified by Leather Working Group, which there's only 13 of them worldwide. So for that, we can make sure that all of our products are made with materials that are long lasting and durable. That is also a very important perspective when we're looking at sustainability. Is that something, when you get it today, it's going to look really good three years later, five years later, ten years later down the road.  So, that is important to us. 

 When we talking about the construction of designing a handbag, we look at it rather than,  the traditional ways of designing a handbag by adding plastic fillers or nylon fillers to hold the shape of the bag. We're really looking at how can we reduce that? How can we present something that is what you see, is what you get?  At first it sounds easy, but when we're actually working with the patternmakers, with the craftspeople, that is actually one of the biggest challenges we meet, because it's very hard for people to, when you're trying to do innovations, to challenge the tradition of making handbags. That's when a lot of conversations need to be involved in order to be like, how can we use material itself to create a unique shape, to create a unique construction? So, that takes a lot of collaboration, takes a lot of communication, to solve that.

And then for us working with people who understand the construction, who also have passion about solving the problems of being like we wanted to be with you on this road to using innovative materials, to use innovative hand bag designs and constructions, and then to, you know, go around five prototypes without feeling frustrated.

So, that is also like very big challenges that we have, and we are  resolving that with the people that we work with, so that we see as a collaboration as well. 

Christopher Lacy: What I get from this, which is such a beautiful process. This all started with the idea of, of a frustration of someone who wasn't from the fashion industry, really a mathematician, logistics, and through this collaboration with Zi and design principles, you guys have started and have built now a brand that's going to approach design principles differently, and sustainability differently, through collaboration.  So, in a moment, I'm going to actually ask you more about collaboration and where Advene fits into that. 

Yijia Wang: Yeah, we would love to talk about it.

Christopher Lacy: So, how are you approaching design and collaboration differently? Because understanding what Advene is about; I have seen what you guys were putting together and what the plan is over the next five years. It isn't just about accessories and it's not just about a handbag, which is where you started. But you have a clear vision for the future. And I'd love for you to talk about that. 

Yijia Wang: Yes, Chris. So for us, obviously we started with one product because our design philosophy is to release one design at a time.  We believe that doing things step by step and doing it great, it's what's going to add value to the customer and to the world.  So, that is the first how we approach design.

And when we, approach collaboration. So, each step we believe that it's about every single person who is involved in the process. It's interesting everytime when we looking at any website or brands, when they talking about, the, about us page, it's only about the founders. But to us, as you can see on our website, we listed every single person who has joined this journey of us building Advene. And then we put their names on it. Like how you watch a movie at the end, every single person is listed out. This is very important to us because we believe that it's not only me and Yijia created brand. It's every single person who is involved in it.

Zi Xuan: Yeah, adding to that, all the design history from our Craftsmen movements, all the way to Bauhaus, we have this history of design and production work together to create. But in contemporary history where brands like, for example, Nike and H&M did develop this, you know, more brand-centric business model, where production was kind of outsourced and it's more about the brand equity. So, the coolness of the brand, such connection between design, production, design and creation has kind of diminishing gradually. So, we can develop a closer connection for the customer and also develop a closer connection with customers so they can get engaged and  be part of the brand story, rethinking everyday essentials. And, we're going to equip them with more offerings from different categories for that purpose. 

 Christopher Lacy: You're coming up with this idea, this concept of collaboration. And I think that's beautiful in your about story. Like, we've collaborated with these people. They've helped support us. They're part of our brand story. And I think that's a beautiful place, because when you really were in the swing of this, we were also globally in the midst of a pandemic, where you had a lot of people that felt, I'm so siloed and I'm not involved, and collaboration changed, because it was through digital processes.

But with that, for you, there's also the added stress of trying to start a company during a pandemic. So, what was the most challenging part about that? Because your whole brand is based on this idea of, collaborating with people. And right now you couldn't get together with people to collaborate. 

Yijia Wang: You know, Chris, this is definitely been a challenging year for us.  Previously we rely very heavily on traveling. For us, when we are developing materials, we need to make sure that we visit the facility, meet the people who work there, talk to the owners, talk to the people who work there to make sure that, what they actually deliver is the same as how they described it.

So, that is definitely very challenging for us without really seeing people in person, without seeing the facilities in person. 

Christopher Lacy: Did you have a scary moment where you're like, are we. Are we really doing the right thing? Should we wait? Do we push forward? Like, what were those conversations between the two of you?

Yijia Wang: Well, it has already been pushed back because our original plan on releasing the brand is around Earth Day this year. So, that was at the high point of the pandemic and we had a conversation of wait it out and then just to  release our brand when the world is ready. So, that is definitely, I think it's an easy decision for us to make. And then at the same time, the production has been delayed. Yeah. 

Christopher Lacy: Production is a big part of what you do because when we talk about sustainability, there is the aspect of supply chain, cause you're trying to be transparent and then in the middle of it, you're like we got to switch manufacturers. 

 Yijia Wang: Yes. So for us, the overall value never changed. So, when we are finding manufacturers, finding our production partners, we always only go, like without pandemic or not, we only go out to the ones that matches our value. And then it just seems even more important when there's a pandemic and then to see how they deal with the pandemic and then how to find the partners that can help us to push through this difficult time. It's become even more important. 

Christopher Lacy: So, really what's amazing about what you two have done is that really the pandemic didn't slow your vision down. It changed it a bit, but you were still able to navigate the space and still fulfill what your promise to each other was about how you wanted this brand to look to the public and engage with the public. And I think that's something to be said is that you didn't slow down. You were like, we're going to keep going. Like, some things got delayed, but we see this vision coming to fruition. And I think that's amazing. 

How do you see retail evolving in the next two to five years, as you've launched something that's new that, you know, a new concept for what accessories looks like? How do you really see this industry evolving?

Zi Xuan: So, I think the industry is gonna evolve in a very interesting way and it's kind of accelerated by the COVID pandemic. The digital transformation is going to change  (in a) drastic way. When we were switching factories and we were having all this conversation with the production. It's all online, digital connections. And, this is a brand new experience for us and it has been much more smoother than we thought it would be.  And retail is evolving in the same way. So, in five years, we're expecting, for example, a virtual reality. All sorts of different innovations in the digital space. The other side is the data. So, we are in the world of data. Basically, platforms on digital shopping has been collecting datas and people has being experiencing highly personalized shopping experience already online. We think people are just going to be more and more kind of drawing to the whole data personalization and probably the shopping experience is going to be, on the one hand and more personalized, and on the other hand, even more segmented. It's kind of like the news landscape today, where you only see what you want to see.

Christopher Lacy: Hmm.

Zi Xuan: And then, that's also the reason why we think offline is important, because offline is the place to bring different people together and bring the diversity together. So, it can compliment the whole idea of data-driven, digital shopping experience. So, you know, more interdisciplinary kind of collaboration, better storytelling, to bring different people together, inspired by art or theater and more interactive, sensual senses that needs to be more carefully curated ,that digital experience can never replicate.

And then, the online and offline experience needs to be, you know, more consistent and definitely a more omni-channel kind of experience. 

Yijia Wang: I think it's, more like creating, like bubbling experience. It's like everyone is in their own bubbles.  Let's say if I'm used to shopping at Sephora, then I would immediately think of Sephora when I'm at home, I'm going to shop online, or I'm going to shop offline when I was outside, I would go to Sephora. So, that was, I think for me as a customer is experience, retail gonna be with you along every hour, every minute. And then to creating that habit; to creating that kind of message and idea engraved in people's head, of like this is my go to place, and this is the bubble that I created, like shopping bubble that I created for myself. And I'm going to stick to that.

So, being consistent is extremely important. And because that is one of the biggest ways to have that kind of connection in the customers head. And then for them to, whether you're offline or online, there's no clear lines in that.  It's just going to become a very consistent loop. 

Christopher Lacy: You know, I think using the term bubble is great because what we know and what we see is, that term personalization. What does that really mean now? And I, think when we're pulling data, and there's always the recommends and recommended products, but really personalization, if we talk about also sustainability in the industry, is what you guys are doing with collaboration. And so does, the space for design principles and sustainability go to, I'm personalizing my product with Advene. So, Advene has styles and they have, this product, but how do I, as a customer, engage with Advene and help in the creation process? And not just Advene, but any organization, like that's the future of it. Because then we start really producing things as needed, and not necessarily so much stock that's just sitting out there.  And still being smart about that. But I love your term of bubble and this idea of this personal ecosystem.

When you think about everything you went through, in getting this brand to a launch date, people who are listening right now that are looking to start a brand, they have that passion, they have that fire that the two of you had. What would each of you give to someone as advice, at this point? 

Yijia Wang: So, I personally would say there's, there's a phenomenon that I always comfort myself and comfort ourselves. As some of the most successful brands is born from crisis times. In the recent history, Looks Lobsters, Methods, Zomba, they're all born in the financial crisis in 2008. So, if the value of the brand is important and we stick with the value, the business stays. 

Zi Xuan: And also what we can think of is it really pushes you to think of things more creatively, because you always set up like an easy way, easy plan, as if everything going to go as you planned. But sometimes when things didn't go as you planned, then it really challenged you to think of things more creatively. And that creativity can bring out a lot of different, interesting outcomes. So, for us, one of the things that we realized is, during pandemic we're like, can we actually offer customer an option of choosing minimum packaging?

Before pandemic, everyone was thinking of gift wrap, paying, you know, like making things more luxurious. But after a pandemic, when everyone was thinking how we can reduce and reuse everything that we have, then we can be like, maybe we can offer a customer a $15 discount if they choose to not use a box. And it's also interesting. Yijia can share this perspective-- 

Yijia Wang: Again, it's more difficult to reduce, compared to addition. So for example, the platform that we're using, there's no way that you can have a discount at the checkout for minimum packaging. You can easily have a gift wrapping option where people can add money to do the additional wrapping, but when you are trying to reduce, and incentivize people to, use less,  you have always to make reroutes and do a lot of difficult codings to kind of deliver that initiative.

Zi Xuan: So, it feels like how is the world not really aligned with the idea of using less? It just very interesting as we are building our website, it just really comes up.  So yeah, I think really thinking of the ways, almost the opposite way, and then taking the obstacles as a blessing  and then just reset yourself. And everyday when you wake up just resets to a positive mode and then, yeah, get the work down at the end of the day and then probably think of things step-by-step, rather than having a really huge problem on your plate. I think it's, it's going to help you to go a long way. 

 Christopher Lacy: I think what you both have been able to say there, which is a great point is remaining open to the new idea, remaining open to the new experience that occurs when you're in that moment of being challenged, and identify where is the white space? And where is the space that you fit in, where nobody has, really acknowledged it? And, and one of the things, the two of you did is you said, you know, we don't have a mindset of how to do less. And we know that we're moving towards this idea of more minimalistic behaviors, but we really haven't seen that come across to the consumer side. And, and I think that's a great point to make about when you're planning to do anything is, how does your openness reveal things that have not been seen before?

How can we stay up to date with Advene and where  can we get it? 

Zi Xuan: Definitely follow us on Instagram, @advene_design. And then visit us on our website AdveneDesign.com and sign up the newsletter. 

Yijia Wang: Yeah, and always feel free to send us messages to info, as in information @advenedesign.com.

We'd love to hear from you.

Zi Xuan: Or connect us on LinkedIn. 

 Christopher Lacy: Fantastic! Yijia and Zi, it has been such a pleasure to speak with you today. Thank you so much. I'm very proud of both of you and I'm extremely excited and blessed to have met both of you over the summer, and to have built this professional relationship and friendship.

So, success to both of you. 

Yijia Wang: Thank you so much, Chris. 

Christopher Lacy: Thank you.

Joshua Williams: Thank you for listening to this episode of Retail Revolution. A very special thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible. If you'd like to support the work we're doing, please visit our show page RetailRevolutionPodcast.com and click on the donate link. Our theme music was composed by Spencer Powell.

Be well and stay tuned for our next episode.

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